Panic attacks

[JayCS]

After having run out of magnesium malate a while, I've now started it again and have realized that I can get to sleep with less unrest & irritation thru it. But even this form gives me stomach burn, so I'm now only taking it with meals. I think I'll try the glycinate form sometime.
I've just delved into the differences again/more. According to natureword the malate form incites diarrhea more, i.e. is better for constipation, something I don't need and is not as bioavailable, and I can't find anything it's better for than glycinate. For both the amount of Mg in it is about 15%, in my case 45mg Mg in 400mg Mg malate. Always wanted to sort that out. A vitalnutrients product is the combination of both, there it says glycinate is more a calming neurotransmitter (ahaaa, sounds like GABA, also being an amino acid) whilst malate is more for ATP synthesis and energy production - something which I also feel I can do with. Hmm, what about really taking both, then? Or swapping, and then?
I take 2x45mg to the evening meal and have started 1x45 for breakfast, recommended on the package is 3x2. How much do you take?
BTW my second look into Schüßler salts did make me more interested in Nr 2 (, (4) and 7, but I'm too engrossed in the GABA/Mg/passionflower-adjustments, which are improving, then praps testing a few specks of L-tryptophan in capsules, and prap serrapeptase... ("make" my own now, as they protect my stomach a bit, even tho they're not gastroresistant).

 

[Jemima]

How much do you take?

I started at 400mg mag gly, but found that made me too sleepy, so I dropped to 200mg. After a while of that I dropped to 100mg per day and that's where I've settled. I'm still feeling the benefits - dramatically transformed in terms of sleep and anxiety in comparison to before. Interestingly, even at the high dose, this one had 0% impact on my gut. I suppose if you're not getting on with mag mal but want to keep the mal rewards, you could look at a separate malic acid supplement?

The homeopathic doses in Schüßler salts don't really speak to me - I can't imagine that such small volumes ("tiny amounts of each mineral are used in each formula; just 0.5mcg per tablet") can offer tangible benefit or compete with dietary sources, but of course the jaded sceptic over here can always be wrong!

L-Tryptophan made me insanely sleepy and foggy, but I've known people get on with it. Haven't looked at serrapeptase yet!

 

[sunkacola]

Jemima, based on what you have said about it, I got some magnesium glycinate and have started taking it. I am starting at 400mg a day and will let you know how it goes.

 

[JayCS]

Jemima, great that you didn't just stop, but adjusted. I was thinking 1x400mg isn't a high dose, if you mean the Mg glycinate, as that is only about 50mg of Magnesium, if I remember correctly, about in the same proportion as my Mg malate. I think malate is less bioavailable, but not *that* much less, and 6 pills, i.e. 2400mg of Mg malate is recommended. So just to be sure: You mean you started with 400mg of magnesium glycinate, which means 50mg of magnesium, per day? And have gone down to 100mg, i.e. about 15mg Mg per day? Sunkacola too? And when - like me mainly in the evenings?
I am taking 2x400mg of magnesium malate (= 2x45mg magnesium) in the evenings and I've also been trying 2 and then 1x400mg in the mornings (= 1x45mg magnesium), that'd be 1200-1600mg per day (3-4x45mg Magnesium). So that'd explain why you don't have gut problems and I do. But I've been taking more, to try to get better sleep, because I'm still up 5-6x every night.
Your idea of taking the malic acid extra won't work, because taking an acid by itself won't do me any good - it's apple acid, and I have to watch out with apples, as with every acid, altho it's got a bit better. And the magnesium itself causes a bit of IBSD already, as magnesium glycinate too. - Guess you've forgotten for a moment that a compound is "more than" / not the same as its components

I know what you mean with homeopathy...:

Spoiler: small homeopathy support I just have to throw in once again, with short comparison to GABA and acupressure - sorry for that ;-)

The pseudo-theory behind it is of course that it isn't supposed to have much original substance in it (so they can use poisonous things like arsenic), but the information is somehow passed on to the carrier substance by being shaken hundreds or thousands or millions of times. It doesn't sound logical or scientific, more like a fairy tale. Problem is it sometimes works and works a lot for some, even - as sunkacola has for instance experienced - on animals. Placebo or no? I've tried a lot of homeopathy, mixtures and classic single treatments, and not much has worked for me. But my arnica complex cream is homeopathic and it works better for my tendon pains than other creams... - and I don't care why.
And relying too much on scientific evidence was what put me off of GABA for quite a few months, them saying that it can't pass the blood brain barrier (BBB), because the molecules are way too big, then an alternative doc saying that if it did it'd mean you have a "leaky brain". Now my experience with it is SO evident for everybody, esp. on my stiffness. And there are recent pubmed studies that admit they see that it does work after all, but they don't know how, and my sleep psychiatrist also supported that it does work on the brain, that it's not somehow the body. Similarly my cryotherapy and acupressure, the other 2 mainstays of my slow progress. That shouldn't of course mean condoning every modern fad. There I feel safer if something has been used and apparently successfully for some for decades or even hundreds of years, so sort of traditional, and I don't then need or expect modern-day reasoning. The other aspect is that homeopathy cannot harm you, at least according to evidence-based medicine, and I much prefer that to brilliantly evidence-based meds which rip my intenstines and skin up - very evidently.

 

[Jemima]

Guess you've forgotten for a moment that a compound is "more than" / not the same as its components

Oh, but I haven't forgotten - yesterday, I read on WebMD that some take stand-alone malic acid for fibro - on the basis that malic acid is used in the krebs cycle - as well as for xerostomia. No clear indication of value though.

As far as I can figure, the product I'm taking contains 400mg of elemental magnesium itself, as opposed to total mag gly, in each two-tablet dose - which aligns with the RDA for magnesium consumption (400-420 mg daily for men and 310-320 mg for women) The label says "magnesium from magnesium glycinate", which is vague I know, but it also says 106.6% RDA and I read a couple of reports of people confirming elemental with the manufacturer

I'm often very sensitive to anything with a sedative effect and would rather take as little as I need of something rather than overloading myself - which is I suppose in line with your idea of homeopathy at least not being so harsh on the body. Plus, if I'm foggy, I can't work, which is just not an option for me!

I'm not sure which aspect of the product is doing it, but know that I've gone from months (decades in ebbs and flows) of racing heart rate, 3am panic attacks, and daily violent ideation to.... calm, after trying a lot of other things that didn't help - so I'm pretty satisfied for my own account. In fact, over the years until now, the only other thing that has ever quieted my wacky brain is Xanax, which is obviously not a habit I want to embrace There are dozens and dozens of reviews of similar experiences with mag gly, but I honestly didn't expect it to work this well. That said, as you know, we are all oh so very different and I cannot explain the impacts I feel!

My homeopathy bias is rooted in (aside from sceptical science brain) having had a lot of homeopathy treatment in the past with very expensive homeopaths, which all did bupkis but empty my wallet. But, I wouldn't detract from anyone who finds something of value for them. We are each on our own journey, and whatever helps is all that really matters.

Best of luck with your ongoing tweaking! I think I'm gonna go make us all some outstanding contribution to science certificates.... ... with glitter!

 

[JayCS]

Dose: OK 106% for 400mg fits precisely to the 72% that it says on mine for 271mg magnesium in 3x2=6 capsules. So one of my capsules contains 45mg of elemental magnesium = 400mg of magnesium malate. Your capsules have 200mg of the element, mine 400mg of the compound. Now I've read up that with glycinate if the % is >14 then it's efficient, high-quality. (My malate is 11%, I think & hope it's still high-quality.) That would mean that yours would be at least 1g capsules or pills, that big?
The effect of mg glycinate on you does again sound good not only for you, but interesting for me also - not panic attacks, but highly alert brain, day and night, so a bit more calm without zombifying would do me some good. Taking a bit more GABA tonight due to my bladder made my table tennis playing effortless and precise, but haven't got a clear head for prioritizing like I want to. If nec my body cortisol helps with doing something done that is pressing, but like you I much prefer a clear head, which is why melatonin, cbd oil etc. were not good at all for me.
I've also tried homeopathy with a classical homeopath with I think phosphorus and similar for about a year (decades ago), before that in my twens I had an alternative practitioner (Heilprakter) who used a lot of different things incl. combination productions and herbs, that helped me with mainly belly problems, but I don't know which of those helped. My retired GP was a sort of amateur who eyeballed me for 2 minutes and decided on Thuja D30 ;-) - not particularly classical, but not costly either. End of the day as I said herbs help me more than homeopathy...

So: Glitter back, as ever: ;-)

 

[Jemima]

They're solid pressed tablets, and they are pretty gigantic, so maybe! Honestly, I'm just as sceptical as you of what's in everything - if there's one thing you can trust humanity to do, it's to cut corners for cash!

I so admire the diligent approach you're taking - it's inspired me a lot to examine things more strategically. May the DIY science continue!

 

[sunkacola]

They're solid pressed tablets, and they are pretty gigantic, so maybe! Honestly, I'm just as sceptical as you of what's in everything - if there's one thing you can trust humanity to do, it's to cut corners for cash!

I so admire the diligent approach you're taking - it's inspired me a lot to examine things more strategically. May the DIY science continue!

I trust the brand I bought for the magnesium, so I am not concerned about it. The brand has been on the market for decades ans gets favorable reviews in Consumer Reports.
I was taking magnesium anyway along with a calcium supplement, so this is simply a different form of mag. Of course I won't draw any conclusions one way or the other until I have taken the mag glycinate for at least a month or two. The tablets I got are also pretty big.

I have had an anxiety disorder for a few years now, and the year of covid increased that quite considerably. I thought it would dim down again once the worst was past, as it seems to be now, and I got vaccinated. It did dim a bit, (it really helped tremendously that I got vaccinated), but the severity and frequency is still a lot higher than it was pre-2020. I won't know for some time, of course, if this is a long term effect or not, but that I have them is still enough to compromise my life and activities, so it would be great if anything helped.

 

[Jemima]

It's just awful how much anxiety can erode life away from us. I really hope you experience an improvement soon, Sunkacola.

I agree that covid has been a massive weight added in terms of anxiety and stress. I had my first shot last week, and was surprised by how emotional I felt - but I suppose it makes sense. It's a background threat to every aspect of life and to loved ones, and from a personal perspective the prospect of anything making fibro worse is terrifying, to say the least!

 

[sunkacola]

One thing I know is that few people who do not have anxiety or panic attacks understand anything about them. I never used to admit it to people, but in the past year or so I have changed that and now I am willing to tell some people, in an effort to "out" the fact of it with the idea that the more people who admit to it, like other mental disorders, the more mainstream and understood it can be, and therefore the less stigma eventually.

I find that most of the time a person will say something like, "But what are you afraid of?" It is hard to understand, if you have not experienced it, that often an anxiety or panic attack is not fear of something in particular, or even in general. I cannot say, "I am having an anxiety attack because I am afraid of..." I am not afraid of anything, I am instead having an anxiety attack. That's a hard concept for people.

Of course, I am not saying they cannot be triggered. they most often are, by something I see or hear or think about. But even then, it is not fear of that thing, because most of the time the thing has no impact on my life, is happening elsewhere, or else it happened days, weeks, months, years ago. It's not something I can understand, so it's pretty much impossible to help someone else understand it.

They can, however, bring information with them. If I start having anxiety attacks whenever I am going to go and do X, then it's good to investigate X, or the other people involved with X, or where X is happening, and so on, to see if I can find the trigger. If I find the trigger, sometimes I can remove or mitigate it, sometimes not, but it can be helpful.

 

[Jemima]

One thing I know is that few people who do not have anxiety or panic attacks understand anything about them. I never used to admit it to people, but in the past year or so I have changed that and now I am willing to tell some people, in an effort to "out" the fact of it with the idea that the more people who admit to it, like other mental disorders, the more mainstream and understood it can be, and therefore the less stigma eventually.

I find that most of the time a person will say something like, "But what are you afraid of?" It is hard to understand, if you have not experienced it, that often an anxiety or panic attack is not fear of something in particular, or even in general. I cannot say, "I am having an anxiety attack because I am afraid of..." I am not afraid of anything, I am instead having an anxiety attack. That's a hard concept for people.

Of course, I am not saying they cannot be triggered. they most often are, by something I see or hear or think about. But even then, it is not fear of that thing, because most of the time the thing has no impact on my life, is happening elsewhere, or else it happened days, weeks, months, years ago. It's not something I can understand, so it's pretty much impossible to help someone else understand it.

They can, however, bring information with them. If I start having anxiety attacks whenever I am going to go and do X, then it's good to investigate X, or the other people involved with X, or where X is happening, and so on, to see if I can find the trigger. If I find the trigger, sometimes I can remove or mitigate it, sometimes not, but it can be helpful.

Really well said.

I had a really strange interaction with an old friend after we had the big fires here in Portugal. She's a real happy-go-lucky type who, whenever we talked about depression and anxiety, was quite dismissive and said that she just couldn't relate because she couldn't imagine what it felt like. The night of the fire, she fled for her life in scary circumstances, convinced that her house had burned down (it hadn't, and ours had, but that's a whole other story!!) A week or two after the fire, she pulled me aside and said that it had dawned on her that the way she felt in that awful moment might be what anxiety feels like for me - it was incredibly thoughtful and empathetic, and took my by surprise. And, she was on the money - anxiety feels like there is some vast imminent threat looming, but without something clear or proportionate to attach it to, or a clear way to try to solve it. That's my experience, anyway.

Great that you're talking about it - I wholeheartedly agree with what you said on the other thread about dispelling ignorance with information!

 

[Auriel]

Hello Jemima

 

[Jemima]

Hello Jemima

Hello Auriel!

 

[Auriel]

I like the unicorn haha

 

[Jemima]

I like the unicorn haha

Have a dinosaur to keep it company!