Too much sleep from CBD oil?

[JayCS]

I'm trying to get my sleep more effective using 10% CBD oil, since I've got almost all my pains down, and. It's increasing my sleep bouts from 1.5-2h to about 3 hours, but I am sleeping longer and very sleepy/drowsy in the daytime and that's getting a real problem for fun and work.
This is the background:
The only thing that has helped up to now was amitriptyline 4 months last year, but it made me drowsy in the daytime and had 7 further side effects, similarly 2mg of extended release melatonin 5 days last month: drowsy and gut problems. May try melatonin again with a lesser dose if CBD doesn't work out.
First try with the 3 recommended drops of the 10% CBD oil was a problem for my gut and made me very drowsy in the daytime too, so I stopped after 2-3 days. In between I tried once again. Then a week later I started getting so much more tired and exhausted than ever before, so I had to go on sick leave. Hasn't stopped. So I thought I might as well try the CBD oil again, but on a lower dose, so I'm only using 1 drop now.

My questions:

Could the first drowsiness & exhaustion a week after taking the CBD oil have been some kind of delayed effect of it?!?

It's the 9th day now of taking 1 drop, and I am now sleeping 11-13h in 3h stints, with 1-2h of breaks in between. When I sleep less than the 11h I start getting bad mood, sort of depressed, am fairly drowsy in the daytime, and have been losing at (outdoor) table tennis the last few days instead of normally winning almost all games in the last few weeks, due to slower reactions, I even trod on a ball and 2 near misses. All new to me.

Today I tried to get up after 11h, altho I was still tired. That was OK, but it didn't exactly improve my "performance" ;-). Should I still try to get up altho I am dead tired? It's got hard for me to know now when the right time is. I'm taking it quite a bit earlier now, often at 6 or 7pm, 2 or 3h before bed.

BTW I tried and managed to sleep 10h net on avg. in January. That was OK, but too difficult to reach without 'help' to keep the sleep breaks down when working more. Then I started napping in the afternoons that worked quite well, without making the nights worse. All not too much of a problem, until I have to work...

Should I keep going on the CBD oil for a while all the same, so my body can get used to it and if so how long?
My wife and my acupressurist suggest staying at it for at least 2 weeks, if not 4. But I have to go back to work in one week, and I wdn't be able to, the state I'm in at the moment - and I haven't really got much time for anything, sleeping so much. Even tho I'm thankfully now on disability pay, meaning I only have to work about 20h/wk, on one day a week I'd have to get up at 6:30 (unless home office saves me ;-P), which'd mean going to bed something like 6pm or continue sleeping in the afternoon...

I wouldn't call it narcolepsy tho (I've seen the description in the recent thread). My sleep need went up from 7.5h to an avg. of 8.5/9h the years before my full flare, not being able to go to bed late any more, then the sleep breaks got worse, due to many (30) reasons, now I've got them all under control, but I still keep waking up, don't know why. The suggestion of my sleep psychiatrist was to try "Restex" (L-Dopa) even if they hadn't really found RLS, but after reading the side effects I preferred to try melatonin, CBD oil, and next ashwagandha, perhaps GABA. (I don't tolerate meds, & the many other herbs & supps I've tried didn't do anything at all.)
Thanks for any ideas & suggestions, whether you've had similar experiences or just want to try to guess

 

[sunkacola]

Hmmmm. I have never heard of CBD oil having this strong of an effect, and am thinking it may actually be actually something else.

I also seriously doubt that a person can get a delayed reaction to CBD because it becomes ineffective in the system only a few hours after taking it, and if you only took one drop, even if it is a high concentration, having a strong reaction a week later is highly unlikely if not impossible.

Of course, everyone is different, and almost anything is possible.

Look at everything you have been doing, things in your environment etc to see if something else could be causing this.

Also, I would suggest trying a lower concentration. You can get it 5% or even lower. And/or try a different brand as well as a different concentration. some brands are more meticulous in their concentrations than others.

And of course another option is to stop the CBD entirely, and find out if you still have the too much sleep problem. That will tell you a lot right there.

 

[JayCS]

Hmmmm. I have never heard of CBD oil having this strong of an effect, and am thinking it may actually be actually something else.
I also seriously doubt that a person can get a delayed reaction to CBD because it becomes ineffective in the system only a few hours after taking it, and if you only took one drop, even if it is a high concentration, having a strong reaction a week later is highly unlikely if not impossible.
Of course, everyone is different, and almost anything is possible.
Look at everything you have been doing, things in your environment etc to see if something else could be causing this.
Also, I would suggest trying a lower concentration. You can get it 5% or even lower. And/or try a different brand as well as a different concentration. some brands are more meticulous in their concentrations than others.
And of course another option is to stop the CBD entirely, and find out if you still have the too much sleep problem. That will tell you a lot right there.

Thanks sunkacola! I think I'll have to stop it once again after these 10 days.
I've now had a look/read around for effect time and for total system time. As I'm a living side effect detector I'm considering the longest times: "As a rule of thumb, CBD oil lasts for four to six hours long, though a heavy dose may last 24 hours" and "for some it can stay in the system for weeks". Habituation time of 1-4 weeks seems to be a) if it causes gut problems, which it doesn't any more at this dose, and b) if it is not working enough. That'd mean like you say either going down with the dose or stopping. 1 drop of mine is 3,04mg, organic, full-spectrum quality (less than 15 mcg THC). The pages I've found are talking about 20mg as a low dose.
Longer sleep stints w'd be nice to keep... Interestingly, the longest stints come in the earlier hours 4:00 of the morning, which was 8-10h after taking it.. I've tried again today to get me awake after 9h30 sleep instead of succumbing, but had to go to bed again for another 2h, because of feeling sick, feverish, heavy and achy.
Since I'm keeping a very detailed blog/diary I'm at a loss where else this c'd be coming from. Melatonin and too much work was weeks before. The first 2x I tried CBD it definitely was that which drowsed me down completely, incl. gut, so it's not unlikely that I'm hyper-reacting.

 

[Flexecif]

Sounds like it's the dose or brand as sunkacola mentioned. I never tried CBD before so I can't tell this for sure. However, I tried this with melatonin. Apparently, I was not reacting well to the first brand I tried.

 

[JayCS]

I decided to stop it yesterday, altho I suddenly felt better for a short time in the afternoon. Must've heard us talking & got scared of losing attention ;-P. I must say the positive effect wasn't enough either, unless I wdn't've had any bad effects. So-so night, due to stopping and 3 other reasons, like going to bed too late and having a (musical) hook/idea, but took half a 2mg of melatonin at 4:00 and c'd then sleep 6 almost thru, after 6h of half dozing, half up... with no bad effects (as opposed to the whole pill). This seems more effective, but I'll consider the brand-question then as well, thank you both.

 

[JayCS]

Now I've actually come across another possible cause: 3 of my cardiovascular meds can make tired, lercanidipine, candesartan and atorvastatin. And selene (which I've been taking for thyroid the last few weeks) in overdose too. Leaving all 4 at once would be an interesting fast effect, but I've decided to leave off the selene and lercanidipine first, and adjust the dose of the other blood pressure med candesartan which seems to have almost no known side effects and which was OK for one of my cardiologists. I've been taking these for months, so it'd be strange that one'd suddenly cause more problems, but maybe it's just been too long, or im combination with something else, who knows...
BTW second night without CBD I slept 5h without a break, I think the longest for 1.5 years now!, probably still from a bit of the melatonin the night before, then a long roughly 2h break, then a tiny bit of the remaining melatonin pill for 2x2.5h.

 

[Affinity]

I haven't really gotten great results from CBD oil but I take melatonin to help me sleep and I find it works pretty well. It looks like maybe you have tried melatonin. At first I didn't like it but I have found a brand that works well with no side effects for me and so I stick with it. I also take magnesium before bed which is also supposed to help with sleep.

 

[JayCS]

Thanks! - Both, but also like amitriptyline, make me sleepier, but even more in the daytime than at night. Is that what you first didn't like about the other brand? I have been taking Mg a week or 2 now too, but first had read to take 6x a day, now my acupressurist & you have said take it at night, so I'll change that now. I think I've got improve the daytime sleepiness before the night-time wakiness tho, I'd thought they might be related, but at the moment I'm doubting it. At least after these tests I'm now doubting that there'll be a supp that will do both at the same time. But I've ordered ashwagandha and GABA now, let's see. And then good old-fashioned ginseng, the supposed cure-all for old folks ... ;-)

 

[Creola17]

Where do you all get your cbd oil? Be careful there are alot
of fakes. I grow and make my own but I prefer the with it because the whole plants is medicine. Put hemp seeds in yogurt or smoothies to get alot if health benefits as well as juicing the leaves. I can't remember the name if the book but a young women with very bad arthritis along with her doctor found that juicing marrijuana leaves and putting in smoothies has really helped her live an almost pain free life.

 

[Affinity]

Thanks! - Both, but also like amitriptyline, make me sleepier, but even more in the daytime than at night. Is that what you first didn't like about the other brand? I have been taking Mg a week or 2 now too, but first had read to take 6x a day, now my acupressurist & you have said take it at night, so I'll change that now. I think I've got improve the daytime sleepiness before the night-time wakiness tho, I'd thought they might be related, but at the moment I'm doubting it. At least after these tests I'm now doubting that there'll be a supp that will do both at the same time. But I've ordered ashwagandha and GABA now, let's see. And then good old-fashioned ginseng, the supposed cure-all for old folks ... ;-)

The daytime sleepiness and nighttime wakiness is a classic symptom and I believe it is due to hormonal imbalance (and melatonin is a hormone). I have dealt with it too and right now I am doing better. I hope you get good results from the ashwaghanda and GABA, I have taken both of those in the past although I take neither right now.

 

[JayCS]

Sleep hygiene
Up to now I've tried to enjoy dozing and counting it at sleep, using counting, autogenic training with self-hypnosis to start it off. This had helped a bit, whilst lavender, weighted blanket, fantasy journeys etc. were a small extra. All not very effective. Now I'd started to intensify the autogenic training, which worked one night, but was hard to repeat twice after. My acupressurist gave me the hint that if she does self-hypnosis at night, it keeps her half-awake 'in limbo', so she's stopped that. So tonight I used it, but concentrated more on letting go, once I've got my body more relaxed and off of too many thoughts.
Also I'm trying to perfect my sleep hygiene (always trying to eat at 6, bed by 9, keeping night breaks <5', hot water bottle at 4), giving myself tokens on my blog for what I manage. That had helped me a lot last night. Hope that's not a one-off again.
Great night: 10h of sleep, 45' of breaks, up 4x. But optimizable. ;-P
I've also realized not only can certain mails etc. set my night thoughts going, but also composing music, because that gets me going and creative, which may be great, but kills my self-discipline. So I'm trying to get things like this done by midday. Pity, but that's just necessary at the moment...
Thanks! - Got the ashwagandha & GABA yesterday, but haven't taken one yet (as my new endocrinologist wants to check my 24h-cortisol and I didn't want to influence the results. Thyroid looks perfect, but he says it's probably still "a bit" of Hashimoto, cos of my previous TPO-values.)

 

[Creola17]

I was told by my doctor that ashwagandha is bad for your thyroid. I have hasimotos thyroiditis so I stopped but I liked it.

 

[JayCS]

Oh, thanks for reminding me to check on this. I'm really not sure about it. I asked my GP, he didn't know it, I sent him web info, but he doesn't have time to read it. But I've just been to an endocrinologist-professor, who I can ask that when I get his opinion after my bloods & cortisol.
On healthline's 12 Proven Health Benefits of Ashwagandha it says: "autoimmune diseases ... like ..... Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, ... it may increase thyroid hormone levels in some people."
However my best German alternative med. site recommends it, saying it's been shown in an Indian ;-) pilot study from 2018 to increase thyroid function, which is what we need. But to keep it to 4-8 weeks so it doesn't that too much.
This is the study (on pubmed) "Efficacy and Safety of Ashwagandha Root Extract in Subclinical Hypothyroid Patients: A Double-Blind, Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial" with the "Conclusion: Treatment with ashwagandha may be beneficial for normalizing thyroid indices in subclinical hypothyroid patients." (I'd be subclinical, seeing as the thyroid itself looks good.)
An article which your doc might be referring to is an incident from 2005 in a 32yo CFS-woman (pubmed) "Thyrotoxicosis following the use of ashwagandha".
Found this on healthline's "Does Ashwagandha Improve Thyroid Health?" page now too.
Bottom line: I need to ask my endocrinologist first. Darn I've got it here now. Thanks again, Creola17

Anyone against GABA then? Got that too, just change the order.

 

[Creola17]

JayCS please let me know how the GABA works.
Just read about it and sounds promising.

 

[Affinity]

I was told by my doctor that ashwagandha is bad for your thyroid. I have hasimotos thyroiditis so I stopped but I liked it.

I have been told to avoid nighshades and ashwagandha is a nightshade and so I cannot take it now, although I know a lot of people for whom it has worked well.