Sharp knee pain…..fibro?

[Stuartjohn]

Hi iPad chronic fatigue 30 years ago and recovered over 4 years.
After a stressful year, 3 years ago I developed fibro, pain in my calves and hamstrings, couldn’t walk but after 2 years was able to walk 2 miles. But then 10 months ago lifted something heavy and damaged my knees…..they improved but then got worse and been bad for 6 months…..sharp pains when I walk which get worse the more I walk and using stairs….so basically not exercised for 6 months. As it was sharp pains I thought it was knee damage but saw a knee specialist had MRI and he said my knees were fine ( a bit of degeneration/ mild arthritis but not enough to cause problems) and he reckoned it was the fibro. I am now walking 500 metres twice a day as well as stretching but the pains still there …
I was thinking that because of my fibro/ fatigue, although my knees are healed, there is probably a hint of the injury there which without fibro you wouldn’t notice but with the fibro it’s being exaggerated giving me the pain and sharp pains. I just wondered about other peoples opinions or experience of this.

 

[JayCS]

Hi - in short: I now always have success using youtube exercise or acupressure etc. videos for these kinds of pain.... But to get there I had to be treated intensely for a long time by good gentle knowing physio people, like osteopaths, chiropractors, in my case best was an acupressurist using various techniques including TCM influenced acupressure points, trigger points, myofascial release, Scar- and Bonework and more.

Long version:

Many fibromites and fibro docs resort to the explanation you give, that pain without a visible nerve or body injury
is amplified pain (hyperalgesia), or at least one that it is exacerbated by the central nervous system, so called central sensitisation or idiopathic pain or nociplastic pain. Meaning we could only prevent it from becoming too much by keeping what we do to our sweet spots, not overdoing our activities, thus reducing our overall pain, thus reducing local pains.

My attitude regarding my "20" pains was always different, once I realized my acupressurist and I were able to get some local pains down.
This lead to my approach of diligently tackling each and every local pain and my acupressurist got most of them down, whilst I got some down myself which she wasn't able to, so together we found ways of completely 'healing' all pains, even old injuries and long lasting pains.
In December I decided I can do without her help and after a few weeks 7 old and new symptoms cropped up, which I got down again almost immediately.

This has nothing or not much to do with my overall big deep fibro Ache, which is still there and which I can only influence with certain supps, together with exhaustion keeping my activity level under 40% when the Ache is at 1. When I "overdo it" a bit, it goes up to 3, if I overdo it a lot, it can go up to 5 or more. Of course the Ache and the pains come on top of one another if they are both there, but mine don't amplify each other.

 

[Jemima]

Hi Stuartjohn,

I get awful knee pain whenever my fibromyalgia flares up. Just like you, exams didn't reveal anything to explain the pain. They can get incredibly aggravated, and sometimes it hits like a white flash of pain that stops me dead in my tracks - excruciating!

I've found that finding the right management strategies to get my fibro symptoms down as a whole has reduced the frequency and severity of the knee pain dramatically, so perhaps it's worth looking at the issue holistically, rather than trying to treat the knees specifically.

When they get bad, I ice them (a distraction as much as anything else!) But, starting with an all-in approach to stress management and pacing, improving sleep hygiene and diet, and then gradually increasing exercise when I was able, has knocked the knee pain way down. I really hope you find that the same can be true for you

 

[Stuartjohn]

Thank you for your replies.

 

[JayCS]

I treated a knee pain yesterday successfully with my massage gun/pistol, forgot to mention that.

 

[sunkacola]

I treated a knee pain yesterday successfully with my massage gun/pistol, forgot to mention that.

massage gun/pistol?
It makes me picture you massaging your knee and then shooting it. Clearly NOT what you are saying so I am curious.

 

[JayCS]

massage gun/pistol?
It makes me picture you massaging your knee and then shooting it. Clearly NOT what you are saying so I am curious.

If anything messes with me....yo... I'm trigger happy... - solves the problem quick and to the point...
It's a pretty big vibrating gadget with a handle so it has the form of a pistol or
... well maybe more like a blow dryer or drill... would be more appropriate, but wouldn't that sound very strange...
It's usually called massage gun, but here we say pistol, cos it's not long like a rifle. (Not that we have any contact with those strange gadgets.)
You can put 5 or more various "caps" (attachments) on the end, but I usually use the main one, round and soft like polystyrene.
It's "percussion/vibration therapy". It loosens up the tissue, but it also seems to get your nerves out of the pain cycle.
(So sez a doc on youtube, but thinking about it I believe he might be right.)
My acupressurist used it and that felt not just good, but helpful. She suggested me getting one.
Mine cost 40€ (very good no name) and it's very much worth it. Now I've stopped the acupressure it's good to have it.
I often think when some boney part of my body is hurting that it can't help.
Then I try it, vibrating the area around it, and lo and behold it takes at most 8 minutes and it's gone. Might need a few repetitions later.
If in need of "tender loving care" you can pretend it's better to get it done to you,
but it's also a nice, gentle and effective way of showing yourself the tender loving care you deserve...
Now I know how well it works, I'd pay 100€ or more for it. Altho it's so good I don't need to use it much,
so it feels strange to pay "so much" for something only used 20-30 minutes a week. Bit of a mindscrew, that.

 

[sunkacola]

How interesting. It sounds as if it might be worth a try. My super chiropractor uses something that taps rapidly on various points, but that is different from the vibrating you describe. At first read, it sounds terrible to me, because those tender areas don't even want to be touched when I am in a flare in those areas. But your recommendations carry some weight with me, because I know how meticulous you are in your research and reporting. So I might take a look for one. I wonder what they call them here. America, being a culture with a lot of guns, it might be called something else here...or not. I shall find out. thanks for the reply.

 

[JayCS]

tender areas don't even want to be touched when I am in a flare in those areas

OK - that'd be a challenge for anything, of course.
I just tested it on my left elbow (after first twist-stretching it) from that perspective.
When I (up)hold it lightly, I find the vibration very gentle, a light buzz, praps even less than your TENS unit might (not sure, I found "electrotherapy" was pretty tough, and that was the few minutes before it caused my seizure-aura).
Mine has 3 levels, others have 5, I've also seen 30 offered, I wouldn't know why tho. The lowest level moves slowly, but "makes waves" in the tissue that way, which if I do it too long can make a bit nauseous, I'm very sensitive with that, but if I then stop immediately, the nausea does too.
The higher the level the less waves, so the speed may be high, but that has its own kind of gentleness, cos it feels almost "still".
One problem is that the arm holding it eventually hurts due to the weight. That again stops soon after I stop.
Workaround for that tho is not to hold it, but to rest the "working" arm on a chair or pillow etc. In other cases I just alternate the arms.
Or I do it as "exercise" all the same, and then treat the working arm with the other too.
As I'm not trying to avoid all pain, I'm trying to alleviate it so that I can exercise and get any pain down quick.

Workarounds for the tender areas in a flare might be
1) not to do it when in a full flare, but in time, to prevent or reduce the next flare,
2) to do it and see if it praps decreases the flare faster than doing it seems to increase, i.e. try if pushing thru that pain is worth it.
3) work away from and then around the tender areas, see if you can work yourself from outside to in.

Alternate names: Muscle therapy gun, Deep Tissue Percussion, Body Muscle Massager, etc....

 

[DGN]

Knee pain, I've had a few. In addition to fibro, inflammatory arthritis, and central sensitization syndromes, I have recently had two total knee replacements. I have been fortunate to have received a lot of help with rehab. Two things that I found helpful with rehabbing knee pain is as follows. Firstly, diagnostic scans tend to reveal difficulty with bone & cartilage. A major source of knee pain can be with associated with the connective tissues, and in particular ligament fatigue. Therefore, even when scans show only mild degeneration, what they don't show is ligament fatigue, or mild connective tissue inflammation due to overuse. Accordingly, slow, incremental rehab, together with rest and icing can be helpful. It helps me be more compassionate and gentle towards my poor ligaments which don't respond to rehab like muscle tissue responds. Muscle tissue responds relatively quickly and differently than ligaments. I have some hyper mobility so my ligaments are too loose so they are not great at keeping the joint tight and secure - the sloshing around causes pain (even with new artificial joints). Point being, you've got a whole lot going on in that hard working knee mechanism. Be slow, and gentle, and incremental when safe to do so. Secondly, I have found specialty prescribed desensitization creams (which include Gaba, amitriptyline and ketamine), or anti-inflammatory prescribed diclofenac 10-20%(or over the counter Voltaren) very helpful for knee pain.

 

[Badger]

A massage gun sounds interesting, I had something similar many years ago and wonder if it's worth trying one of these. It might be handy for nagging knee and joint pains. Sharp joint pains are awful to live with, sometimes ice or heat can help to drown out the pain a bit. Stuartjohn in my personal experience injuries may heal but pain can be longstanding or become chronic. It can be difficult treating them and getting back to activity. Accumulating injuries also makes it difficult treating them all. I tend to give up after several months unless something's severe then is voltarol or a heat pad. All the best in treating your pain.